Running Issues 1999 2.3

[lozmart]

Hi

 

We've had a issue for a,week or so with out galaxy. When cold it won't rev over 3500rpm , doesn't matter how much you put your foot down. We changed a coil pack thinking it maybe that but it's still playing up. Also when we're out sometimes it acts like it's in the wrong gear for the speed but then picks up.

 

Any ideas???

[BrianH]

Try the maf (sensor just after the air filter). It should be possible to unplug it and try driving it like that (should default to set values when you do this). If its noticably better like that then the maf isn't working properly.

 

It may be worth putting an obd2 code reader on it to see if any errors are detected, though theres a fairly good chance it won't find anything helpful. Not sure if you will be able to see any live data on the 2.3 engine which may point towards a dodgy sensor.

[sparky Paul]

With BrianH on this one, definitely worth trying the MAF sensor first, any improvement when unplugged points to a duff MAF sensor. Also worth checking for any fault codes, not everything throws up the engine management light.

 

If you can get a OBD2 reader on it while running, it might be worth checking that temperature sensors in particular are giving sensible values.

[lozmart]

I've ordered a ELM327 , is that right? Ill pop out in a min to try unplugging sensor while there's a break in the rain.

[lozmart]

I'm not sure if it's better or not , as it only happens,when the engine is cold.

[lozmart]

Sorry for another update. That didn't work. Took it on a short drive with sensor disconnected. The car cut out 7 times. So obviously can't be that.

[BrianH]

Elm 327 should be fine. Anything that does obd2 should work for the engine. Personally I use a Bluetooth adapter and the torque app.

[BrianH]

Its one of these i've got

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HHOBD-ELM327-Car-Bluetooth-OBD2-Auto-CAN-BUS-Scanner-Tool-Android-UK-SELLER-/171702768776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27fa485488

 

and this I use on the phone (actually the pro version but similar)

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.prowl.torquefree

 

if yours is the bluetooth version it should be fine with a phone or laptop/Tablet with bluetooth, usb one will need something pc based within reach of the car.

 

Diagnostic port is under the ashtray btw incase you haven't already discovered it.

 

Final question - you mention swapping the coil pack, have you tried swapping the other coil pack? (I'd assume you have - I think the 2.3 has 2 seperate ones directly mounted onto the plugs firing 2 from each- I don't know as mine is the 2.0 and that uses leads and remote coil packs) and how old are the spark plugs?

[lozmart]

I've only changed one and swapped either one with no change. The sparks were done last year. Just find it a bit odd reading with a Maf sensor removed it should run. But the car stalled again and again on a short drive. It's only when cold whatever it is , when it's heated it acts fine. Edited July 26, 2015 by lozmart

[BrianH]

The other possibility i can think of that may be temperature related is the exhaust sensor. It will default with the maf disconnected (it sees it isn't there so uses a substitute map which isn't ideal but should allow it to run, albeit not at best efficiency). It may not really be the temperature causing it, hard to tell for sure hence the suggestion of checking fault codes (better to do that now than guessing in the dark as such!)

 

Sparks done last year but how many miles have you done since?

 

You will have a stored code for the maf when you read the codes (or at least should have) - your best bet is going to be do a code scan, save or write down what codes have been generated, and then clear the codes and see what comes back

[lozmart]

It only did 2000 miles between mots. The cars not long gone over 100k miles. Hopefully this reader comes in a couple of days. Come to think of it On the last mot 6 weeks ago , It nearly failed the emissions , lucky for us I had a fair inspector who ran it a bit first. Which made me think coil. ( failed emissions last year- coil solved issue) The cat was done last year to.

[BrianH]

Any idea which value it failed on?

 

It might also be worth pulling the air filter box apart and checking there isn't anything in there that shouldn't be. A carrier bag for example!

[lozmart]

No idea what the values were it was last year and I'm not sure where the paperwork is , but running with a bad coil smashed the cat to pieces. A replacement coil fixed it and it went through emissions. This year would have failed if the chap hadn't stank out his garage running it for 15 minutes. Ill check air filter tomorrow anything else maybe??? It's a pain in the bum as I'm out of work at the moment so can't keep buying bits randomly. A new coil was £60

 

It just means for now if we need to go anywhere I need to run it for 5 mins on the drive to warm it up.

[sparky Paul]

The plug leads fail too, and a weak spark causes all sorts of problems. Do you have the proper platinum tipped plugs fitted, or the cheap standard ones?

 

The early cars have two coil packs, the later ones are like yours BrianH - one coil pack and separate leads.

 

Emissions readings might be helpful, especially as it was a close thing last time.

 

The reason things can improve with the MAF disconnected is that a faulty MAF may be feeding the ECU duff information. If the MAF is disconnected and the ECU cannot see it, it uses default values to make the fuel injection calculations, so that the engine can still run.

 

 

Also, watch out for those cheap Chinese bluetooth ELM327 readers. Some of them work fine, but some DO NOT WORK WITH J1850-PWM PROTOCOL, which the petrol engine ECU on the Galaxy uses. They all look exactly the same, but some are built with a defective board, and some with parts missing. Pins 2 & 10 on the diagnostic connector, which J1850 uses, are sometimes not even connected. You will pair and connect okay through bluetooth, but you cannot communicate with the ECU.

 

The USB types are a safer bet, but the bluetooth devices are fab if you get one that works.

[sparky Paul]

A few more thoughts...

 

If it runs okay when warm, then most probable suspects are always going to be weak spark, or fueling when cold running - possibly a sensor issue somewhere.

 

If idle is rough, trying cleaning the idle control valve out with a bit of petrol, its on the top of the inlet manifold... though that doesn't normally hold back the engine from revving.

 

Any type of smoke out of the exhaust when cold? Smell fuelly?

Edited July 27, 2015 by sparky Paul

[lozmart]

No noticeable difference in smoke. But when it's starting to warm up it does smell a little bit fuely.

 

With regards to the maf disconnected , why would it get worse and stall several times?? Took it for a quick run to the local garden centre and stalled out 7 times when I had to stop / slow down. As cutting out when it dropped to idle , unless you caught it in time.

 

I've ordered both usb and Bluetooth as they're only £6 /£7 ea

Edited July 27, 2015 by lozmart

[lozmart]

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=181648381328&alt=web

 

And. http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=331206015268&alt=web

[BrianH]

No noticeable difference in smoke. But when it's starting to warm up it does smell a little bit fuely.

 

With regards to the maf disconnected , why would it get worse and stall several times?? Took it for a quick run to the local garden centre and stalled out 7 times when I had to stop / slow down. As cutting out when it dropped to idle , unless you caught it in time.

 

I've ordered both usb and Bluetooth as they're only £6 /£7 ea

 

Its probabbly not actually any worse, its just that the slightly less than optimum values it would be working with are pushing the already poor performance to a worse level making it appear worse.

 

I think your best bet will be to either wait till you get your diagnositc bits sorted out and see if that shows up any clues.

 

Is there any hissing sounds inside the cabin area (down by the pedals and around the heater controls specifically) or from the brake servo area? The main vacuum line to the servo is known to split at the end resulting in a vacuum leak, this may be bad enough to cause a stall. Though if its only at idle or low throttle then the idle control valve may be the issue as mentioned above - it may be worth trying to clean it and see if you get any improvement.

 

What plugs do you have (make and model) and have you tried the leads if it has them (I find the leads on the 2.0 more problematic than any other part, though this is mainly down to the awkward position of the plugs which are different on the 2.3 anyway)

[viperclive]

I had a similar problem many years ago on my mk1 2.3, I changed maff and lambda as instructed by a friend after he ran diagnostic check, worked!

[lozmart]

Received Bluetooth Elm this morning , plugged in.... No fault codes stored in Ecu , just now had a message saying it cannot connect to ecu Edited July 28, 2015 by lozmart

[lozmart]

Guess it's,a dodgy reader , typical. Hopefully usb will turn up tomorrow.

 

With regards to plugs they've got the platinum motorcraft ones on , and prospark leads.

Edited July 28, 2015 by lozmart

[BrianH]

Ignition has to be on for it to work. Best to connect the Bluetooth module first. Then turn ignition on. What are you using to actually read the codes? Phone app or laptop? And what software?

[lozmart]

I've tried Torque on a z2 and Touch scan on the kindle. Kindle connects but cant connect to any of the protocols it scans . Torque says can't connect to ecu

[BrianH]

Torque should work - it does on my older 2.0l petrol Galaxy. Are there any lights on your bluetooth adaptor?

[lozmart]

Hi

 

Sorry for the late reply , I was waiting for the usb diagnostic to come though , it's kicked up p0102 mass or volume air flow A circuit low and p0500 speed sensor A. I've also rechanged the leads and plugs. I cleared the codes and it revved to 4/ 4500.